tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post6692689588978034287..comments2024-03-24T19:55:32.537-05:00Comments on The View from This Seat: Fed Up with Fundamentalism, StillLKSeathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-41735758017689194722019-02-01T14:00:43.764-06:002019-02-01T14:00:43.764-06:00Thanks, Craig, for posting all this information ab...Thanks, Craig, for posting all this information about Henry Drummond (1851–1897), who was, as you know but others might not, a Scottish evangelist, biologist, writer and lecturer. I don't remember writing anything about him in the past, but I do remember thinking of the significance of that name being used for the Clarence Darrow character in "Inherit the Wind."<br /><br />LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-38109302737783979272019-01-29T22:16:36.452-06:002019-01-29T22:16:36.452-06:00Rereading the opening of your book, and the commen...Rereading the opening of your book, and the comments so far collected, made me realize I am no longer "Fed Up" but rather tired out of fundamentalism. Indeed, I even saw a shadow over the cover of the book. It was the shadow of Henry Drummond. Drummond was not just the fictional name of the Clarence Darrow character in "Inherit the Wind." He was an historic person himself, and a challenge to the rather limited case made by Darrow in defense of evolution. For instance, in the exchange about Jonah and the Whale/Great Fish, the Darrow character gets his opponent to confess that he did know the source of the whale error. Drummond would have pounced on it. Jesus Christ Himself, as quoted in the King James Version of the Bible is the source of that "error!" They also discussed whether the days of creation were 24 normal hours long. Drummond would have had an answer he could read from the Bible, or sing from the hymnal. Psalm 90 proclaims that a thousand years in the sight of God are but an evening gone. Famed hymn writer Isaac Watts took the rhetorical flourish and ran with it, as he wrote in his majestic meditation on Psalm 90 "O God Our Help in Ages Past" proclaiming "A thousand ages in Thy sight are but an evening gone." <br /><br />Psalms and Watts both predate Darwin by quite a bit. It could have been quite a trial. Sort of like calling Huldah as a witness in a discussion of women in ministry. Henry Drummond preached the famous sermon "The Greatest Thing in the World." He also published in 1896 "The Ascent of Man." He worked for a time with D. L. Moody. It was the Christian Drummond who ends "Inherit the Wind" hold Darwin and the Bible together, not the atheist Darrow. It must have been disappointing to the author of "Inherit the Wind" that his subtext remains to this day so deeply buried. To read a little more about Drummond, see link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Drummond_(evangelist)Craig Dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00033176451913108084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-15374070067780565222019-01-29T16:04:38.043-06:002019-01-29T16:04:38.043-06:00Thanks, Ron, for your comments, and I apologize fo...Thanks, Ron, for your comments, and I apologize for being to slow to acknowledge them. I certainly agree with your idea that Trumpism is having, and will increasingly have, a very negative effect on conservative Christianity. But, unfortunately, all forms of Christianity suffer some from the fallout. LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-3374645080167898502019-01-26T10:37:48.484-06:002019-01-26T10:37:48.484-06:00For me things have really shifted in the Trump era...For me things have really shifted in the Trump era. Up till now I took fundamentalists seriously on grounds of shared commitment to the realm of God. But now I feel allegiances are manifested that shatter my best hopes. Trumpism is self-destructing before our eyes and I think it will destroy all those aligned, including righwing Christians. Once I would have been at least ambivalent but not today. They have so thoroughly betrayed the values l once felt provided at least a modest point of engagement.<br />Urbane Peacheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654319585318041028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-23076987772617758512019-01-26T09:30:51.118-06:002019-01-26T09:30:51.118-06:00Thanks, as always, for your thoughtful comments, E...Thanks, as always, for your thoughtful comments, Eric.<br /><br />In my book I deal with the issues you mention in your comments. But as I just posted in response to Dr. Hinson's comments, the main difference between conservative evangelicals now (and they want to use that term because "fundamentalist" became so pejorative) is their active involvement in politics. LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-54748119927001315652019-01-26T09:27:38.928-06:002019-01-26T09:27:38.928-06:00Thanks, Dr. Hinson, for pointing out the main diff...Thanks, Dr. Hinson, for pointing out the main difference between the first fifty years of Christian fundamentalism and that of the last 40 years, namely, their relationship to politics and the desire to change society through political action. LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-6485223628488270792019-01-26T09:25:47.932-06:002019-01-26T09:25:47.932-06:00I appreciate the kind words from this rural Missou...I appreciate the kind words from this rural Missouri friend and am praying for him and the UMC during this time of turmoil in that denomination.LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-35718791414826505302019-01-26T09:24:08.001-06:002019-01-26T09:24:08.001-06:00Thanks for your pertinent comments, David.
Yes, f...Thanks for your pertinent comments, David.<br /><br />Yes, for those of us former Southern Baptists who are no longer in SBC churches, fundamentalism is not the problem for us it once was. But there are people in other denominations who are right now facing the same problem that many moderate Baptists did in the past. (See the comments following.) And, who knows, there may even be some people in SB churches still for whom fundamentalism is a problem--although I assume that by now most who were/are fed up with fundamentalism have left the SBC.LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-61637431041625220152019-01-26T09:10:30.472-06:002019-01-26T09:10:30.472-06:00Early this morning I received the following commen...Early this morning I received the following comments from Thinking Friend Eric Dollard in Chicago:<br /><br />"Thanks, Leroy, as always, for your comments.<br /><br />I read the revised--and very interesting--preface to your book, which provides considerable background about your separation from the SBC. <br /><br />"Some have argued that fundamentalism is its own religion. Fundamentalists, regardless of religion or non-religion (yes, there are fundamentalist atheists--I know some of them), seem to share certain psychological traits, two of which is a fear of those who are different and a fear of ideas that are different from their own. These fears betray a weak faith.<br /><br />"Fundamentalist Christians prefer the term "conservative evangelical." Fair enough. I disagree with them on a number of issues. What kind of book is the Bible? How should the Bible be interpreted? Should Christianity be inclusive or exclusive? Do modern science and the Bible, or modern science and Christianity, actually conflict? But my biggest problem with conservative evangelicals is their involvement in right-wing politics--not conservative politics, but right-wing politics. There is a difference. (Their support for Donald Trump is especially puzzling. You have written about this in some of your blogs.)"LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-40715190763646035542019-01-25T10:13:21.580-06:002019-01-25T10:13:21.580-06:00Here are pertinent comments by Thinking Friend Gle...Here are pertinent comments by Thinking Friend Glenn Hinson in Kentucky:<br /><br />"The great problem I pointed to in articles I wrote, Leroy, was that it shifted from theology to politics. In this Trump era we need to place it under even greater scrutiny. What happened to the Southern Baptist Convention has happened to the country. Compare the two Falwells! E.Y. Mullins wrote one article for 'The Fundamentalist'—about religious experience. He would not write for the neo-Fundamentalists.”LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-6393653619995013612019-01-25T10:10:11.304-06:002019-01-25T10:10:11.304-06:00I was pleased to receive the following comments fr...I was pleased to receive the following comments from a Thinking Friend in northwest Missouri:<br /><br />"'NEVER' unfair or disrespectful. -- I personally think fundamentalism is a greater problem now. Perhaps it is because our church (United Methodist) is going through its own painful reckoning at this time, as well as the ascendancy of DJT. It may also be a result of more people willing to speak out with a loud voice, through social media platforms, with direct push-back against fundamentalist ideas that are more accessible through those same platforms than they were in 2004-2007. <br /><br />"Enjoyed your preface and amazed once again with the thoroughness of your research and documentation. Keep up the good work with God's help."LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-57823151557012904552019-01-25T08:18:32.680-06:002019-01-25T08:18:32.680-06:00I think it's less prominent on the whole. I su...I think it's less prominent on the whole. I suspect, however, it's still an issue for some in denominational service and for those who are, themselves, fundamentalists. I think the issues fundamentalism espouses are never taken care of. Until Jesus comes, there will always be a moral issue to defend. But for those of us who have moved well beyond the SBC and MBC fights of the 80s and early 2000s, I believe we've moved beyond getting riled up about things we used to. <br /><br />The main reason I think it's less prominent is that a new generation is on the scene much more open, inclusive, and embracing than their fundamentalist forebearers. The social and moral issues so important to fundamentalists a decade ago are non-starters to this new generation...gay marriage (let alone whether someone is LGBTQ), trans people, etc.<br /><br />But fundamentalism won't go away. There will always be places to find it. And at some future time, new issues will arise making fundamentalism necessary and vogue in the culture and in the church. I'm just grateful that in my life now and for my son that this is not the burning issue it was 10-15, even 30 years ago. Thanks be to God!David M. Fulkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03217056124642517722noreply@blogger.com