tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post4464473168494805477..comments2024-03-24T19:55:32.537-05:00Comments on The View from This Seat: God's Funeral LKSeathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-30816938403360146162015-05-21T11:07:42.020-05:002015-05-21T11:07:42.020-05:00This blog article was linked to in the Perspective...This blog article was linked to in the Perspectives section of BaptistNews.com. There was a very substantial response by Dick Wilson, whom I do not know, on that website:<br /><br />"In the 1887 edition of 'The Gay Science' Nietzsche added a Book Five. The first section of which (343) offers this explanation of 'God is dead': '. . . belief in the Christian god has become unbelievable . . .'<br /><br />"It seems to me that in a real sense 'the God of imperial Christendom, the God of "manifest destiny,:’ the God of exploitative capitalism, and the God who supposedly sanctions male supremacy and who condemns all homoerotic activity (even between consenting adults)' has become (or is becoming) unbelievable to more and more people. I suppose Nietzsche would wonder whether those of us who 'don’t believe in that God either!' and think there might be 'other, truer concepts of God' have remained 'Christian.' It seems like the challenge of the ‘nones’ to us is to make a case that our ‘truer’ characterizations of God are Christian (or perhaps post-Christian).<br /><br />"What if we learn to take leave of the god who dictates for the sake of the God who liberates? What if we worry less about being God’s beloved and risk more of ourselves by being be-loving of all? What if radical immanence means God’s promise of love and life really depends on our practice of love? What if ‘El Shaddai’ is not the almighty, power-hungry, sovereign god but the power-expending, nurturing, God-with-us? What if the Power of the universe pours her/him/itself out prodigally for the world and lives or dies with it? What if God is dying for us, because of us?<br /><br />"Will the question to us and our posterity be: 'What after all are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?' ['The Gay Science' sec. 125] Or will churches be places 'proper to grow wise in, if only that so many dead lie round'? ['Church Going' - Philip Larkin]."LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-56299879186957135412015-05-18T08:12:17.955-05:002015-05-18T08:12:17.955-05:00I am a bit late posting these thoughtful comments ...I am a bit late posting these thoughtful comments received on Saturday from local Thinking Friend Eric Dollard:<br /><br />"When I was in college in the late 60's, I read the book by Thomas Altizer and William Hamilton, 'Radical Theology and the Death of God.' And while Altizer and Hamilton said that the death of God culminated in the life and ministry of Jesus, I think the real death of God was about the conflict between ancient and modern concepts of God. <br /><br />"Ancient sacred texts, whether Greek, Jewish, Christian, or even Islamic, present a very anthropomorphized vision of God, but this vision does not resonate in the modern world view. God, if he or she exists, is probably outside human conceptual capabilities.<br /><br />"The real question is whether or not God is involved in human life. Because of the problem of evil, this is a very difficult question since an all-natural view of the universe, in my humble opinion, provides a simpler explanation.<br /><br />"Nonetheless, God is alive and well, at least in the minds of the majority of people. Many of these people have demonstrated humility and compassion on account of their faith in God through their acts of love, charity, and care for the poor, the weak, the ill, and the lonely. So while an all-natural view of the universe may provide the most convincing explanation of evil in the world, faith in a mysterious and elusive God may provide the best example of how to deal with it."<br />LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-17334370108701899252015-05-16T13:22:40.749-05:002015-05-16T13:22:40.749-05:00Craig, I like your emphasis on the need for the un...Craig, I like your emphasis on the need for the understanding of God to be continually renewed--and for the new to be born (resurrected) the old must die.<br /><br />That is one problem with fundamentalism, as I see it. It is a desperate attempt to hold on to the old rather that to accept, or help birth, the new.LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-40664293282055146042015-05-16T13:18:55.152-05:002015-05-16T13:18:55.152-05:00While "third world" missionaries coming ...While "third world" missionaries coming to the U.S. is certainly commendable, and needed, in reality I am afraid such missionaries have little influence except among those of their own ethnic groups. Cross-cultural mission work, especially in economically advanced countries, is very difficult.LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-51008829870282218342015-05-16T13:08:26.752-05:002015-05-16T13:08:26.752-05:00As some of you know, Kaufman (1925-2011) was a Men...As some of you know, Kaufman (1925-2011) was a Mennonite and a longtime professor of theology at Harvard Divinity School. <br /><br />I enjoyed studying Kaufman's book with Clif and a small group of interested people at Rainbow Mennonite Church a couple of years ago. And while I agree that there are a lot of good and important insights in Kaufman's work, in my opinion he is an example of a theologian who in opposition to the extreme of fundamentalism went to an extreme of liberalism. <br /><br />I still want to affirm the importance of a radiant center!LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-11912333847972656082015-05-16T12:51:30.215-05:002015-05-16T12:51:30.215-05:00For those seeking an alternative concept of God I ...For those seeking an alternative concept of God I suggest the book <i>In the Beginning, Creativity</i> by Gordon D. Kaufman. My review of the book at <b><a href="https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/216160992" rel="nofollow">THIS LINK</a></b> provides a description of its contents.Clif Hostetlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09192652526880912362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-68564311708162963832015-05-15T13:21:43.686-05:002015-05-15T13:21:43.686-05:00May atheism increase when it comes to this god of ...May atheism increase when it comes to this god of jingoism, judgmentalism, triumphalism ("Take back America!"), and cult-like manipulation! I gladly profess to be such an atheist.<br /><br />I'm a believer who gladly joins with all those who believe in the God of those four L's you talk about: the God of Life, Love, Light, and Liberty!Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15701771893425250142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-77166962400857863712015-05-15T11:06:00.904-05:002015-05-15T11:06:00.904-05:00I think Nietzsche saw that the anthropomorphic God...I think Nietzsche saw that the anthropomorphic God of Christianity was nonsense, and I think he thought it was dawning on everyone else, too. A lot of 19th century intellectuals thought religion was in decline because its traditions and doctrines could not withstand critical analysis. But typically they were talking about the practice and use of religion. Nietzsche viewed Christianity as a manifestation of fear and resentment and as a most destructive force in human life. He viewed Western reason and Western religion as enemies of life itself. If he had been a believer, he might have worked his idea of "the will to power" into a doctrine of God. I think Tillich's "God beyond God" is too transcendental for Nietzsche. Nietzsche looked to Life itself -- which is where he saw the will in life to become ever more life, to overcome itself. In so many words, he said: Look around! Everywhere you see life, it wants to grow, to be more, to become more, to overcome. And where it gets stifled, as it does by dead reason and religious restrictions, resentment results. [At least, that's what I hear him saying.]Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03945285810893867079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-12489119710194338392015-05-15T10:55:42.079-05:002015-05-15T10:55:42.079-05:00Is not the funeral of God written into the very DN...Is not the funeral of God written into the very DNA of Christianity? Jesus took more than the sins of the world to the grave with Him, He took the world's understanding of God with Him, too. The death of God has been going on at least since the writing of Job. Our question in response is, Atheism or Resurrection? Our understanding of God must always be ready to be born again. What once was a standard answer no longer is any answer at all.<br /><br />Modern religions, including Christianity, stand always on the precipice of change. Sometimes the change comes from society, sometimes from science, sometimes from deep within itself. Frequently the precipice is denied and ignored. Yet it is there, always demanding a response. For instance, the quest for the historical Jesus has taken dramatic turns in recent years, yet these turns have been neither accepted nor refuted, but rather powerfully repressed. Not with a repression of censorship, but rather a repression of avoidance. No one wants to know.Craig Dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00033176451913108084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-61411576895435204242015-05-15T10:46:59.048-05:002015-05-15T10:46:59.048-05:00Thankfully, the East, Middle East, and Southern He...Thankfully, the East, Middle East, and Southern Hemisphere are sending missionaries to the West. The western Church desperately needs them. The arrogance and postmodern thinking of the west has made it quite sick - culture, politics, economics, theology, all the way around. Thank you, God, for those who are willing to put their possessions, livelihoods, lives (and necks) on the line for their Christian solid faith.<br /><br />One of my favorite inspirations was Kikuyu missionary Steven Wanji - an unknown who recently passed away. Another is Sona Mang, a missionary from India who has come to Kansas City. Both unknowns in the Christian celebrity world. Two others would be Hutu and Karen missionaries, whom I should not mention by name, but are here in the Midwest. 1sojournernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-64544253708408847782015-05-15T09:36:19.777-05:002015-05-15T09:36:19.777-05:00Charles, I have not been able to document the quot...Charles, I have not been able to document the quote from Fosdick, so it was from memory. I found several websites that give a similar version. There is also a website that attributes similar words to George Buttrick.<br /><br />I first heard of Harrington in the 1960s but did not read anything by or about him (in detail) until the last few months. I suggest you see what I wrote about him in my March post at http://theviewfromthisseat.blogspot.com/2015/03/christians-for-socialism.html I have been very favorably impressed by Harrington and will be mentioning him again soon, probably on May 25.LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-53042985063393138452015-05-15T08:41:33.163-05:002015-05-15T08:41:33.163-05:00At any rate, Leroy, thanks for posting this. Not f...At any rate, Leroy, thanks for posting this. Not familiar with Harrington's book.ckikerintuliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02670661043872744115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-65385966690863897362015-05-15T08:39:36.061-05:002015-05-15T08:39:36.061-05:00I don't consciously remember Fosdick's com...I don't consciously remember Fosdick's comment regarding the god he could not believe in. Perhaps it was passed on to me by a prof at good old SBTS. (Nothing like that could come out of SBTS these days. If it did, it would be one of the last pronouncements of the prof who made it.) But I have adopted that saying for my own.ckikerintuliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02670661043872744115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-19073833746561451912015-05-15T07:27:32.229-05:002015-05-15T07:27:32.229-05:00Thanks for sharing this, Anton.
My first thought ...Thanks for sharing this, Anton.<br /><br />My first thought was, this is what Tillich was getting at when he talked about "God beyond God." Maybe it was the "God beyond" that Nietzsche never got sight of--or maybe that is what he was referring to.LKSeathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860725174433173015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355086750486200439.post-66189507755006358982015-05-15T06:31:06.381-05:002015-05-15T06:31:06.381-05:00“For the old gods, after all, things came to an en...“For the old gods, after all, things came to an end long ago; and verily, they had a good gay godlike end. They did not end in a ‘twilight,’ though this lie is told. Instead: one day they laughed themselves to death. That happened when the most godless word issued from one of the gods themselves—the word: ‘There is one god. Thou shalt have no other god before me!’ An old grim-beard of a god, a jealous one, thus forgot himself. And then all the gods laughed and rocked on their chairs and cried, ‘Is not just this godlike that there are gods but no God?’” ––Friedrich Nietzsche (Thus Spoke Zarathustra)Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03945285810893867079noreply@blogger.com